2/5BZ @ Wire Magazine #341 July 2012 & Interview for The Wire Magazine April 2012

http://gozel.tumblr.com/post/30515747692/2-5bz-wire

http://2-5bz.tumblr.com/interviewire

2/5BZ @ Wire Magazine #341 July 2012 & Interview for The Wire Magazine April 2012

http://2-5bz.tumblr.com/interviewire

http://2-5bz.tumblr.com/post/30514574044/2-5bz-wire-magazine

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The idea of Turkish culture resold as ’ exotica ’ for aural tourists also concerns Serhat Köksal, a dissident multimedia artist and favourite of the late John Peel, As 2/5BZ , Köksal records fascinating electro cut -ups incorporating excerpts from old Turkish films . He claims that some protest singers like formidable Selda Bağcan , who was jailed several times by the military regime after 1980 coup and remains a critical voice, are being ideologically santised as they are remarketed ” Mostly, these works are stripped from their socio-political content /context and diminished to a merely entertaining tune/sound/visual ” Köksal argues .

2/5BZ @ Wire Magazine #341 July 2012

İşitsel turistlere ‘exotica’ olarak yeniden satılan türk kültürü fikri, John Peel’in son donemlerinin favorilerinden, muhalif/karşit görüşlü multimedya sanatçısı Serhat Köksal’ı ilgilendiriyor. Köksal, 2/5BZ olarak, eski türk filmlerinden bölumler içeren çok etkileyici elektro cut-up’lar kaydediyor. Iddiasi o ki, 1980 darbesinden sonra askeri rejim tarafindan birkaç kez hapse atılmış ve eleştirel duruşundan birşey kaybetmemiş, muhteşem Selda Bağcan gibi protest şarkıcıları, yeniden pazarlanırken, ideolojik olarak sterilleştiriliyorlar. Köksal’a göre, ” genellikle, bu işler, sosyo-politik içeriği ve bağlamından sıyırılarak, sadece eğlendirici olan bir melodiye/sese/görüntüye indirgeniyor.”

2/5BZ @ Wire Magazine #341 July 2012

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2/5BZ Interview request Wire Magazine - April 2012

Inbox

On 28 March 2012 17:05, Matthew Collin

for The Wire magazine (www.thewire.co.uk). Is it possible to have an interview with you, if you have time?

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From: serhatkoksal@
To: matthew.collin@
Subject: RE: Interview request
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 09:46:49 +0000

Hello , Here are answers for your questions .also as a file in attachment . all best , serhat

Tell me about the origins of your work, how did you get started in the 1980s?

S. K. - 2/5BZ is my main project since the 1980s. It started as something that I had scribbled on a school note-pad in the 1980s.

Many years later, I noticed it as I was flipping through the pad, and it has become the name of this project. I designed the logo in 1991

. In 1982 I finished my first work titled “Men playing Ping Pong and Ajda Pekkan vs. Supertrashmen” which was a cartoon made on a notepad.

At the beginning, my aim was to create a project with a name to be recognized on stickers rather than to be pronounced. At that moment there was no other meaning of 2/5BZ, not more than a name given to this project. Within time, this name contained the meaning and purpose of my works. Sometimes, it gained different meanings, depending on how different people pronounced it.

As for the sound experiments, my memory dates back to mid-1970s, when I was 7 or 8 -I used to play different material with my two portable tape players at the same time, and try to record the sound on a third tape recorder, aiming to create a totally different music. In line with such like experimentation, I used a 4-track and some tape loops in the 1980s and early 1990s. My materials were sounds I created, along with 1960s and 1970s movie sounds, found footages, field recordings, television news and traditional to pop music.

In the early 1990s, I started producing works in which sound is thought in relation to visuals and videos. Later on, I started editing video and sound spontaneously and live on stage. What I found exciting was that, I was trying to do what the sound technicians and effect designers of the Turkish movies once did, but live on stage.

Also, it is worth to underline that, most probably, I am influenced by the tradition of humour which operates as a medium of opposition. In this region, since the early ages, the population had faced numerous waves of invasions and oppression, and had developed its own humour, as a reflex of resistance. Indeed, as Turkish humourist Aziz Nesin once put it, “Throughout history, popular humour and humour that is on the side of the public have struggled with oppression and malice, through making fun of the dominant classes, dictators, and bad governors.”

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What was the situation in society at that time, in the years after the 1980 coup, and how did it influence your work?

S. K. - In the early 1980s, not only in Turkey, but elsewhere in the world, neoliberal transformation was coupled with oppressive regimes, in an attempt to eradicate organized opposition against so-called market reforms. This oppressive turn, parallel to the neoliberal one, happened everywhere, taking different tones with respect to the socio-political, socio-economic dynamics of the countries. Also, in Turkey, post-1980s coup was not the only oppressive period. One can observe similar ones in the late 1940s, late 1950s, throughout the 1970s; and after the 1981 coup, another significant turn is the late 2000s. Although one may think that today’s economic climate, bringing the coup generals into court does add up to a less oppressive regime. I believe, the oppressive character of the regime is more subtle, yet stronger nowadays.

As for the immediate aftermath of the coup, it was a period of desertification on many levels, especially with respect to organized opposition, critical thinking, artistic production.It was the late 1980s and in the early 1990s that I happened to collect material I have seen and listened to in my childhood, and re-used them in a puking effect, mixing it with television news and speeches, along with other material, in response to the circumstances of the day. The tone of this puking effect is mostly affected by the tradition of humour I have mentioned above.

Was there an alternative/underground music scene at that time?

S. K. - If you are defining alternative/underground music through its formal similarities to those in Europe and the U.S., it can be said that there was not much as an alternative to pop music. Also, at that time, so-called “alternative” and “underground” were not categorized as such, for easy marketability.

As for my story, it can be said that a few places had started to open in early 1990s in Istanbul and in other cities, where we can put our cassettes and photocopy zines. I had also sent cassettes and zines by mail. Later on, I came to learn that, through making copies, my cassettes and zines have reached to cities that I had never sent stuff to, like Diyarbakir, New York, Manisa, Samsun, Zurich. I think, if the work “works”, one may not really need an established “scene”.

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How is your work connected to 1960s/70s elements of Turkish culture, for example cinema?

S. K. - The cinema and music of the 1960s and 1970s is a part of my childhood. In the late 1980s, I had started to collect material of this period (films and music) that I know and remember from my childhood. Those were rarities, available from time to time in the flea market then. As I have already said above, I used this material with a puking effect, mixing it with sounds and speeches, in response to the circumstances of the day. I tried to create a relation between the speeches of politicians and dialogues taken from Turkish movies from the 1960s and 1970s, which had been oozing into the society’s subconscious.

I was also impressed by the sound technicians and effect designers of the Turkish pop cinema, from 1950s to 1970s, who usually edited the musical scores for these films by drawing on material ranging from traditional Turkish music to Western Avant-garde tunes using cut-up techniques. I still believe that these people, who affected my subconscious when I was a child, were highly creative. Tuncer Aydinoglu, Yorgo Ilidais, Suudi Yilmaz are some of these sound technicians and effect designers. I also published the interviews I made with these people in my photocopy zine “Gözel Mecmuasi” (Gözel Zine) in the early 1990s. Later, I started editing video and sound spontaneously and live on stage. What I found exciting was that, I was trying to do what these sound technicians and effect designers once did, but live on stage. If the relation between video and sound develops on stage during the performance, the humorous and political statements that I use are passed to the audience. This is what I want to do. But, of course, sometimes unexpected things out of my control happen.

Another influence on my subconscious is Abdurrahman Palay, one of the most important dubbing artists of Turkish cinema since the 1950s. We did some recordings together for my 2/5 BZ project in the 1990s, and I used these sounds in my Peel Session tracks.

Also, I find the directors of the period, such like Cetin Inanc and Cevat Okcugil highly impressive. They were able to keep and express their creativity under difficult conditions. I also published interviews with Cevat Okcugil, for example, in my photocopy zine “Gozel Mecmuasi”.

In that sense, my relation to the music and cinema of the 1960s and 1970s is different from the recent trendiness of these elements.

My criticism is that, the recent trendiness of 1960s and 1970s cinema and sounds parallels, in a way, the rise of so-called Anatolian tigers, the small and medium size enterprises in the production process. They are sub-contractors of the larger production process as they are more likely to minimize costs (especially labour costs). Yet, these enterprises dream of becoming a multinational company one day, as their labourers dream of becoming a CEO. This illusion operates on two levels: an Anatolian pop fetish parallels (and in a way romanticizes) this rise, most likely, to co-opt another class, and on the other hand, most of the musicians sampling and covering these sounds, are like these small and medium size enterprises, with the same dream of making the “alternative” spaces integrated to the mainstream or becoming headliners themselves. Yet, the rule of success, as in the production process, is adaptability (to the global production process). Otherwise, it is hard for you to play in these clubs along with the headliners.

This entire interaction as sampling and covering may seem enriching, yet it is not really reciprocal in a balanced manner. Mostly, these works are stripped from their (socio-political) content/context and diminished to a merely entertaining tune/sound/visual, and quite an adaptable one.

Also, there is the copyright issue: the ‘trendy’ (or likely to become ‘trendy’) pieces from the 1960s and 1970s one can sample, are owned, mostly by major “alternative” companies, and at the face of the trendy artists using these sounds who align with these companies, it becomes harder to produce your own sounds, or mash-ups.

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You also have an interest in Arabesk music, why this is interesting to you?

S. K. - I have been listening to arabesk music since my childhood, and use samples and tunes from arabesk music in my works. As for what it is, and why it is interesting to me, I should say that I find arabesk music sincere as an expression of people’s pain and rebellion. I find it misleading that in understanding arabesk, focusing only on censorship, or creating a snapshot of identity over the drama of migration to the cities, or the struggle of people living a difficult life in, misses the bigger picture. Although these singular focal points have some truth to them, in such a piecemeal line of thinking, it becomes easier to eviscerate arabesk, and then fill it up with the ingredients the power elite sees fit, label it as exotic, and market it in the relevant cultural goods market.

In the 1950’s and 1960’s, when it first appeared, arabesk was an honest expression of people’s pain and rebellion. And it managed to reach the public, despite all limitations. Yet, the honest feelings of the people, then become a issue of marketing, especially pain has been commercialized.
The exploitation of pain and the honest feelings of the people in arabesk is very much related to the neoliberal turn of the 1980ies. As soon as it was realized that this exploitation brings economic gain, they worked on it. Even the Prime Minister of the period, Turgut Ozal, was using arabesk in his political campaigns. Some arabesk stars were glorified as stories of upward mobility, as an example of spreading the hope that “you can do it too”. The seeds, put in the 1980s, have grown into what we see more clearly today.
Today, the injustices of the economy, and the pain and suffering in the lives of people are even more aggravated; arabesk is less and less an expression of these difficult lives, and the voice of the urban poor. Arabesk today, has created its own elite audience, and is producing for them more and more. The arabesk music we see today is much of an upgraded class-arabesk. In this sense, it is hard to discuss arabesk, in a limited framework where it was banned (or looked down on) by the country’s power elite once, but now saved through some developments towards democracy. Most of the well-known figures of arabesk adapted well to the changing economic conditions of the post-1980s. And now, they are not really distant from the interests and the likes of the new power elite. They can also be integrated to the global market. Or, in the same line of thinking, their success stories are spread to create “optimism”, not only for the urban poor, but for the small enterprises as well.

One exception that I should quote here comes from an important living, and active figure of arabesk, Hakki Bulut. In the raw recording of the documentary ‘Arabesk - Massenpop und Gossensound’ I have seen him speak. Addressing one of the most important labour protests (of Tekel factory workers) in 2009-2010 against neoliberalism, against the flexibilisation and insecuritisation of labour, Hakki Bulut says ‘Arabesk is Tekel resistance’. This exemplifies one of the ways how I relate to arabesk.

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What are the connections between your musical work and written/art projects?

S. K. - The formal part of establishing a connection between my musical work and written/art projects is not my main concern. My main concern is what I want to say. Depending on what I want to say, sometimes the visual language precedes music, sometimes what I want to say comes through sound, and continues as such, and I add the visuals as needed. Again, depending on what I want to say, or in terms of sharing a common agenda, sometimes I collaborate with others. These collaborations can be as big as the “Roaming Biennial of Tehran”. With a do-it-yourself approach, me being one of the organizers, we established a free and independent “Roaming Biennial Tehran” in order to avoid being a part of a shop window. With the participation of more than 650 artists from all around the world, it was a big DIY organization. The organizations in Istanbul, Berlin, and Belgrade have been supported by friends who made these biennials happen, without accepting the support of global companies and institutions. Lately, there was “Urban Lousy” -a three-day performance programme with (performance) artists from Biennial Tehran. It was realized as a part of independent, self-sponsoring performances undertaken in an actual circus tent, “Circus Charivari”. These circus performances were questioning the relationship of freaks to the city; and there was a text questioning who the new freaks are in today’s cities. We realized “Urban Lousy” performance program, with the participation of artists from different countries in June 2010 in Berlin. Also, since 2010, we are producing visual/written works in monthly political/art magazines.

Please explain your slogan ‘No Touristik No Exotik’. Is this specifically about Turkey and the Western view of Istanbul as an exotic consumer product, or West-East relations in general?

S. K. - I understand it as a part of a wide history of geographic explorations, and hence as a part of an ongoing dynamic, rather than an issue peculiar to Turkey, the Western view of Istanbul as an exotic consumer product, or West-East relations in general. Beirut can be the new Istanbul, or Masdar can be the new Beirut, but the logic stays the same.

“NO Touristik NO Egzotik” became one of my concepts in 2000. I wanted to criticize people who evaluate you not according to the quality of your work but as an exotic object that comes from Istanbul or any other similar place. In the visual / audio performances, I aimed to break, demolish these exotic images and discourses in a sarcastic way. I performed them during 2/5BZ’s first European tour in 2001, which included 6 countries and 19 cities. Later, I based my work on the relations between this exoticism issue and global economy.
As I see it, this relationship, by and large, empties the content/context of the artists’ work, and makes it as a part of marketing to the end of rendering new markets legible/intelligible, and hence adaptable. One can follow it through the similarity of language of ministries of economic affairs, global companies, big cultural events. All of them are using standard artificial phrases in their publication, web sites, interviews etc. such as “dialogue”, “bridge”. These standard expressions are supposed to be used from branding any city or product, to help promote them, and also integrate them to the global economic systems. Nowadays these phrases are commonly used also in cultural environments, almost as a cliché.
In the 2000s, I also used slogans such like “Gegen die Bridge”, “NO Cultural Pipeline (NO Energy) Dialogue”, “NOptimism”, “(Let Us Not Be Fooled by) Destiny in a Palaverel Universe”, “Kill Freedomsday before It Kils You”, and lately, “NOttoman” -in response to the dreamperialistic Neo-Ottoman project of Turkey.

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You are also critical of the cliché concept ‘cultural bridge’. Why?

S. K. - As I have told above, since 2007, it became one of the standard expressions of branding a city or product, or exoticising and commodifying an artist or an artwork, and integrating it to the global economic system. It is a term used by economic actors and big cultural organizations (and their smaller sub-contractors) alike. Through this term/concept, a neat and attractive shop window is created where the artists are rendered adaptable to economic decisions.

I made a solo exhibition in Berlin in 2007 on what these bridges are exactly for -with special reference to energy pipelines and cultural “dialogue”. I think it is more honest when ministries and energy companies use the word “bridge”.

Are the ideas of foreign writers/artists such as William Burroughs important for you?

S. K. - No, I have not read William Burroughs.

What is your opinion of the alternative/underground music scene in Turkey now?

S. K. - There is a marketable alternative/underground music scene. In a way, the increasingly fake or adaptable alternatives are also produced and marketed for this scene. It is pretty much the same in the political realm as well. The new generation (or the foreigners that come to Turkey (often take these fake or adaptable alternatives as given, or do not bother to take a critical stance. Yet, in the climate which is getting more oppressive in the last years, the sincerely critical and alternative organizations, journalists, places, artists, formations are under enormous pressure. It is funny that, as Istanbul gets trendier, the coverage of this pressure expands.

Both my recent music (in progress) and my recent written/art work is in criticism of this oppression, as well as its fake alternatives. For example, in our recent project, “Kozmic Opua” organization is resisting against this system, getting a foothold in the Narduk NOttoman countryside. It messes with measures of securitization, electronic surveillance, as well as the fake opposition.

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2/5BZ Interview request Wire Magazine - April 2012

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2/5BZ Interview request Wire Magazine - April 2012

> > On 28 March 2012 17:05, Matthew Collin <matthew.collin@ >
> > wrote:
> >
> » Dear Berbat Zoksal,
> »
> » I am a British journalist and I have been listening to some of your
> » excellent music on Soundcloud.
> »
> » I will be in Istanbul next month (April 20-23) to write a short article
> » about (good) music in the city for The Wire magazine (www.thewire.co.uk).
> » Is it possible to have an interview with you, if you have time?
> »
> » I look forward to hearing from you.
> »
> » Best wishes, Matthew
> »

> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 11:17:08 +0300
> Subject: Re: Interview request

>
> Dear Matthew ,
> thanks for your interest and comment ,
> i will be in istanbul in those days, and we can meet. and can you
> please give some short information about what you have in mind as for
> the content/direction of your article, or which specific type of music
> will you be writing about, and which other artists will you be
> interviewing? it will also be very helpful (during the interview) if
> you write me in short advance what you want to ask or know about 2/5
> BZ.

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2012/4/5 Matthew Collin <matthew.collin@

>Hello Serhat, many thanks for the email.

I am interested in the content and history of your music and its relation to your ideas about social issues which are expressed in your other artworks and sites. I can send some more specific questions in about a week if tha is helpful.

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Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 20:48:26 +0300

Subject: Re: Interview request
Hello Mathew ,

yes, hearing some more specific questions would be helpful. if you want , i can also put the answers in written form and give it to you when we meet .

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2012/4/17 Matthew Collin <matthew.collin@ >

Hello again,

I will send some questions tomorrow or Thursday, sorry for the delay.
We can meet on 22 or 23 April, whichever is best for you.
Best wishes,
Matthew

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From: Matthew Collin <matthew.collin@ >
Date: 18 April 2012 16:25

Hello! Here are some questions. I will probably think of more when I meet you. Best wishes, Matthew.